Any thoughts on Katawa Shoujo?

[Auro-Cyanide]

@Jake

What you said is definitely true, and it's the whole history repeating itself thing. I can understand why some people got extremely frustrated with this turn around after actually making steps towards innovation. At the same time the girls should be awarded the same opportunity to develop in the same way the guys were, by creating mimics of what they like. The main problem is that people are trying to do this at the same location, which is why we are here I suppose. Everyone grows out of copying and eventually turns their attention to creating something unique. This is true for everyone. I remember copying cartoons and game character designs when I was younger, but I couldn't stand to do it now. The other problem was that this frustration was being presented as BxG vs GxB when it was really about old vs new/beginner vs advanced and interest vs interest. This generally ruffled a few female feathers, especially given the mainstream market and how if you want girl games you have to make them. The idea that we were doing something wrong by creating games we liked and being supportive to each other wasn't one we really wanted to entertain, especially since as female gamers we are generally pretty open to playing male perspective.

Unlike previously, now you have people of a range of genres wanting to move forward and be innovative, which I think makes for a healthier community. You need those different perspectives and attitudes to round out everything. I'm hopeful of seeing many different things that have moved beyond copying JVNs and the same old 'classic' formula. I think this will be pretty exciting.

You might be right in that those that would have started making VNs from KS might have already happened from the demo... As vocal as some of their supporters are, they don't seem to be the ones that will have a go at creating their own. Then again, depending on the coverage on the game it may expose people who haven't even played a VN before, and that will be a different story. And yes, they will be starting right back at the beginning again, trying to create too ambitious dating sims with school girls and a main character with the personality of dish water. And the cycle will start all over again. Will the girls get frustrated with this... it's hard to say. The ones who are already ignore the more cliche games, even the otome ones, will probably continue to feel frustrated. However, there are a lot of girls who are still at the beginner stage and, as mentioned before, the girls are very good at being vocal and supportive, so I don't think there will be too much trouble there.

It will be an interesting fallout, no matter what happens I think.

[DaFool]

[nubbycakes]

@DaFool: A bit off-topic but when you say "altogether-ish," I get the feeling that it implies that "our generation's" collective preference is for minimalistic, artsy VNs. Personally, I beg to differ. One of my favorite VN titles that I felt took full advantage of the medium was this: http://vndb.org/v66. In terms of polish, it certainly does not lose out to other VNs even though the GUI feels a bit dated when compared to more recent titles. Also, it's a commercial VN, but I don't think it pales in comparison to the altogether titles just because it didn't choose to use an "artsy" presentation. I felt that Cross Channel took full advantage of the VN medium because it had the appearance and even a deceptive promotional video that made it look like every other bishoujo game, but the actual content is a compelling psychological drama with some degree of breaking the 4th wall that could only be told effectively through a VN.

Other than that, I agree with most of what you said.

[Hime]

Note that this post is quite off-topic, so if you're expecting more on the subject of KS, please skip this.

I hope this doesn't look like nitpicking, since that isn't my intention here, but I'd just like to quickly comment on the implication that BxG = men's VNs and GxB = women's VNs. For example, I'm female but I have never done (or even began) a GxB project, only BxG and GxG ones, and I prefer to play these games as well. I'm sure I'm not alone. Of course a lot of women like GxB and many men prefer BxG, and the rise of GxB has probably been largely a result of an increase in female creators, but people with other kinds of preferences are far from non-existent. Just saying.

That said, the whole debate about GxB's position in the EVN community would make an interesting thread. I haven't been really following that part of our little scene, and I'd like to know why some people seem to have a somewhat negative attitude towards the rise of GxB. While I don't care for GxB and don't even remember playing a single otome game, but I think that it's nice to have more variety for the people who do like otome since BxG was dominant for a very long time. From this thread it seems that the generic nature of many GxB projects is one reason, but I'd be interested in hearing about other possible reasons, or generally opinions on this matter. In any case, if anyone else is interested in it, this subject could warrant a new thread, possibly for discussing pairing settings in general.

[sake-bento]

Honestly, I have no opinion on the influx of GxB games in production. Is that weird? I think if a bunch of people show up to make BxG games in response to KS, I would still have no opinion. All art, storytelling, or anything else has to start somewhere. And yes, we'll see a lot of copycats, but with more people working, we'll also see more innovation. We'll see new things regardless. Lucky Rabbit Reflex is a great GxB game, but it's seeped in UK culture and it doesn't play like a weeaboo game at all. I know a lot of my work has obvious east Asian influence, since that's who I am and how I was raised. Martial arts as a kid, speaking to the grandparents in different languages, import films, seaweed in my school lunch (which totally made me the unpopular kid), and all that. So it's no surprise that what I write is blended east Asian with western/American culture. I think that given time, creators will show more of themselves and less of the medium they're copying.

[Auro-Cyanide]

I... haven't actually worked on an otome yet, even though they are what got me into VNs in the first place ^_^' Only BxG and BxB. I do plan to rectify that. At some point. But a discussion about pairings could be cool (I don't really know how to phase a topic from that though). I think the negativity towards GxB was a number thing more than anything else. There were just way more of them getting more vocal attention and others were feeling left out. I don't think it really had anything to do with the nature of GxB (except the fact that the people feeling left out were not interested in them really).

Sooooo, Katawa Shojo has been released. Since I keep weeeeeeeeeeeeeell away from that corner of the internet at the moment, any news on people's reactions?
I won't probably have time to play it for a while so I'll be behind the 8 ball as it is.

Can I also say that 5 years is a bloody long time. I know it is a huge game, but 21 people over 5 years? Wow.

[Angra Mainyu]

[haydendawson]

[Auro-Cyanide]

[DaFool]